NSA spying and persecuting hackers does not prevent terrorism - Anonymous
Hello, this is John Robles. I am speaking with a member of the Hacktivist group, Anonymous.
Robles: What are you guys doing to get the news out, to make people more aware of what you were just talking about, and what might be some upcoming goals, I can't ask for operational data, but maybe some areas where Anonymous might be heading, if you can talk about that?
Anon: I guess the main thing is you can keep an eye on groups like Restore the Fourth and Stop Watching Us and people like that and you can get involved with them but you can also see, check the real reasoning behind the spying because those groups are made, were formed just to try to stop it but people need also to see why it happened and how it happened and the whole corrupt money system, that's money bribing system, that's going on behind closed doors.
That's what people need to see because you can stop anything you want, they are just going to come back up the next day. But if you fight it at its source, if you stop the money, if you remove money from politics then everything will be fixed because there's so much corporation control in the system right now. That's what's really messed up about it
Robles: Oh sure, I mean when it costs a billion dollars to run a Presidential Election Campaign. Who has that kind of money except huge corporations?
Anon: Yes. And they will do whatever they want. They will push their agenda because they know: "Hey we will give a couple of million dollars to this guy because he is in favor of GMOs or something like that.
Robles: Can you tell us, what are some of the websites that people can go to find out more about Anonymous? They keep changing, but are there some sources that our listeners could go to just to find out what's going on?
Anon: Well I guess the biggest one would be
You can also stick with the
So you become part of it or you can easily just join it and say "Hey I want to help, what can I do" and people will put you to work.
Robles: Cool. That's IRC at AnonOps, yeah? Tell us about the Million Mask March on November 5th and what's going on in Washington DC. There's been back and forth, it seems like some people are trying to provoke some sort of violent clash with the Police. There's all kinds of things going on behind the scenes.
Anon: From what I've noticed. I've talked with a lot of people. There is like always those people in rallies and protests that just want to throw Molotovs and break some windows in some cars there's always those people that don't really ever really do anything.
It's supposed to be a more of a peaceful protest. I guess that since there really is no group organized. There's no one objective like the Restore the Fourth rally or the Stop Watching Us Rally that just happened a couple of days ago their whole goal was about the NSA thing, this whole thing is just more of a symbol, like a sign to show the Government "Hey we know what you're doing and we're not going to just let you keep going".
These, all these thousands of people are the people that know about it, and we're not just a bunch of kids, we're everyone. So it's going to be more like a message to them.
Robles: I see, I see. Christine Ann Sands, she got the permit for that Washington Monument, for the activities that are planned for November 5th. Can you tell us anything about her?
Anon: She has done a lot of very good organizing. It took a lot people and she set the website up, it's definitely got on the first page of Google so any one that searches it, anyone that looks into it. They can just go there, they can call her, e-mail her if they want or they can just check any locations on the website and they can just immediately get involved very easy for everyone.
Robles: She's putting it all on line by going out there public like that don't you think. Isn't that kind of dangerous?
Anon: Yes that definitely is. I guess there comes to a point that you become. You have so many people following you that they really can't touch you.
You can say that about a couple of the leakers. If some person was randomly discovered dead on the ditch on the side of a street they are going to know that "wait a second this person did not just get hit by a car". They're going to assume that obviously someone did it, it wasn't just an accident.
So I guess that's why it's good that she's coming out publicly. It gives people I guess faith in her. They can trust her, instead of just saying like here's a random scary looking van let's go inside of it and ask questions. Or let's go to this website and let's hope that we're not getting IP logged or anything.
So people can trust that it's not just some FBI operation or something trying to track everyone. They can see who the person is and it's good overall.
Obviously it's got it's bad but she's definitely helped a lot and definitely has helped push this Million Mask March to actually become a "million" mask march.
Robles: Some people are saying that Anonymous as a group, as a collective, is kind of changing tactically, a little bit away from the cyber operations and now into more peaceful real live demonstrations. Is that true or do you think that's a trend?
Anon: Oh yes. Definitely before if you, even now I'm sure if you Google what Anonymous is they are going to say it's an Hacktivist group.
That's really not what it is about any more. You don't have to … you don't even have to know how to use a computer to be part of Anonymous, anyone can join it, it's now just becoming just a group of activists. People who want change and they're just… you don't want to say scared of showing their faces but they wear the masks to show they are united.
Robles: So if I want to I could be, I could be a member of Anonymous?
Anon: Yes, pretty much you have just got to want change, you don't have to buy a mask, but you've got to be a part of the same idea, of the same collective.
Robles: Yeah. What do you think about Julian Assange and Wikileaks and how that's gone?
Anon: So obviously what they do is really, really good. They are just pretty much sticking up, sticking the middle fingers to all the big corrupt Governments and saying "Hey, we are going to show everyone what you have done and we don’t care about it".
That's just awesome. There are not a lot of people that have that much guts to do that.
Robles: What do you say about people that say "Oh they damaged National Security?!"
Anon: There is no proof of anyone that has gotten killed or injured by any revelations.
A lot of people say it's like exactly what the NSA thing people say. That are supporting this say "Well they really how the NSA responds and the terrorists are going to try to go around their methods".
But you have got to think with some logic and say what was the last … which terrorist is going to use Gmail and chat on Skype. It really doesn't happen like that. If you are a terrorist and you dumb enough to use Gmail Skype or Facebook you pretty much deserve to be caught. It's not really like it's stopping anyone.
Robles: Well the CIA likes Gmail apparently. There was CIA agent caught here in Moscow not long ago. He was telling his sources to set up an anonymous Gmail account and to go into Internet cafes and set up Gmail accounts and they would be given instructions how to move on. So there you go on that one.
Anon: You just got to remind everyone that just not to trust what they say. They lied about so much at this point. A lot of people still believe them and people are saying "who is going to watch the watcher".
And that is the really good point; they are saying so many lies someone has got to be able to check up on that to check up on what they are doing. I guess that is what we are doing and we are trying to watch the watcher. But we definitely need a lot more people to join that is the biggest thing.
With only a few hundred people nothing is going to happen but if we have thousands, millions behind us and we were pushing for change, you would see change overnight.
Robles: What's your prediction on how many people are going to come out on November 5th in Washington DC?
Anon: On a couple of different pages you see it's growing. People are saying like fifteen thousand people that are saying that "yes" they are going to go. But it's never really true.
So you should expect a couple of thousand there hopefully. A lot larger than what the Stop Watching Us rally was about. Locally hundreds of different cities all around the world.
Robles: What is your opinion, what is Anonymous's opinion on government? Should Government serve the people or are the people there to serve the government?
Anon: Oh the Government has to serve the people but the Government has to fear the people as well. Not fear, as the term, "cower behind" and be scared of the people. Kind of like how we are with the Government right now. Everyone cowers in the corner and they do anything. The word fear in the meaning that the Government should not try anything because they know that the people are there to stop it
Robles: Regarding what you are saying about they should fear the people, do you think that Americans have been too complacent in allowing their Government to kind of get it out of control?
Anon: And that is the biggest thing. You can say "ignorance is bliss". But it is not. And a lot of people are just being really lied to and the worst thing is that a lot of people that just vote and they do not really look at what they are voting.
People say that "oh go go vote it's your responsibility" but I have never really been involved with politics. If you are not involved with politics you should not be voting in the first place. And that is what makes it worse you really really need to look at the people you are voting for.
Especially your representative, it's not really just the President that are, the people that going to become President, but you have got look at who is representing your state who is and what they are doing you cannot just base it all on one thing.
That was a really big problem with voting for Obama in the previous election. A lot of people were saying like "oh well he supports gay rights" or "well he does not support gay rights" and they just base it off one thing instead of really looking at the overall problem and that is the biggest issue at this point. But people do not know what they are voting for and they have allowed it unfortunately.
Robles: Would you agree that some of these issues are like? I mean gay rights for example, it's not really a key issue, it might be used as a distractor do you think?
Anon: Oh definitely. The media is all owned by the same corporations that are lobbying for politicians and politics and things like that. You can really never trust what they say is when the right hand is doing something watch the left hand.
So especially with the recent things even like the Zimmerman trial it was like that went on for ages but what was going on in the background there were so many things that were being passed I cannot really remember what they were now but I am sure the NSA was part of it. But that really just distracted people around it.
Everywhere went on the Internet it was Zimmerman this Zimmerman that. But hiding under all that was "Oh wait the White House has tapped this".
No one did anything because they were too busy with the Zimmerman thing. And that's a really good distraction what they are doing and it's really working unfortunately.
Robles: They are holding hundreds of men indefinitely in Guantanamo and torturing people. You know puncturing eyes and slicing testicles and everything but "Oh, gay rights. Look over here"! Yeah? Unbelievable.
Anon: Yes, that is really sad but I don't really blame the people for that at a level but really people need to actually open up their eyes.
Wake up there is lots going on and you can't just ignore it
Robles: Why do you think you can't ignore it, I can't ignore it? Why do you think people want to ignore it? Is it dangerous for them to know the truth or are they just comfortable being blind or what do you think?
Anon: I am pretty sure that a huge majority of people that are, that do not know anything they are just misinformed and uninformed.
Just at the beginning I went to the very first NSA rally and I am telling you not, probably of 50 people maybe one person knew what was going on. Maybe one person knew that NSA existed
Robles: At the rally?
Anon: Well a lot of people do not even know. Yes at was the very first one. The one that happened on the fourth of July this year.
No one knew about anything. And that was after, well like a month after it happened.after it was released. If people knew about what was going on they would do something but it's a large majority of them. So that is what is the most important thing at this point is raise awareness.
Even if you cannot go up to the Million Mask Marches print a couple of flyers they will only cost you 4 cents apiece. You can download them and put them all over the place just hand them out on a Saturday.
Go to a park and hand them out with a couple of people for a few hours. Go grill some hotdogs or something and there is … that's a good Saturday spent and you did a good thing informing everyone that is what people need to do.
Robles: You said even back in July like one in fifty people didn't even know about the NSA, and I'm thinking that the whole media was saturated with Edward Snowden and these revelations but what about the US? Did they just keep everything out of the media?
Anon: Oh yes definitely. If you want to try to find anything about the NSA or anything about Edward Snowden you are almost never going to find it on the big nation media channelsand even a lot of people they do not even share on-line.
So when I just talk with someone like a few days ago that did not even know about NSA truth list and I am surprised like how do you miss this stuff that is all over the place.
And I am sure at point it was on CNN for some reason just for a couple of seconds but it was there. All over the place it seems a lot of people still do not know about it.
It is definitely being hidden by everything. Like I said the people that own the media are the same people that are making money out of NSA spying and things like that.
Robles: I see.
The digitized voice in this interview is to protect the identity of the speaker who wishes to remain anonymous. The voice reflects an Anononymous member and can not be considered the "Official Voice of Anonymous" as there is no such thing.
We are Anonymous.
We are Legion.
We do not forgive.
We do not forget.