Q: Mr. Secretary, your visit is expected to become the first visit of the UK Foreign Office’s Head to Moscow in a long time. What goals do you intend to pursue, what issues would you like to discuss and why?
Boris Johnson: It's true, very busy. But this is a very interesting and important trip. It's the first time that I think a British Foreign Secretary will have been to Moscow for five years. I think it's very important to go. But we got to stress that whenever I talk to [Russian Foreign Minister] Sergei [Lavrov], they always put out a thing saying that it's business as usual. It can't be business as usual.
Because we have some serious obstructions in our relationship which we must be frank about; and you know what they are. You know the list of problems, our disagreements about ongoing destabilization in Ukraine; disagreements about Syria, as the Prime Minister said the other day at Mansion House; our anxieties about what's going on in cyberspace; the Western Balkans, and so on. We have to address those, but then we have to say "Look", and I say this to Sergei Lavrov and to the Russian people, "we're both P5 countries, we both have a responsibility to our own citizens and to the world to try to work together where we can."
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And I do think there are areas where we can do things together, and where it's time for the UK and for Russia to think about our joint interests and our joint national interests.
Q: What are the areas that you consider to be of mutual interest?
Boris Johnson: Well, I'll tell you. There are several. First of all I would mention Iran and the JCPOA [Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action]. You know, that… Let's be clear, the position of the United Kingdom is very close to that of Russia. We both see merit in protecting that agreement, the core of that deal. We both see the merit of trying to constrain the nuclear ambitions, or the military applications of Iran's nuclear program. Neither of us wants to see a nuclear armed Iran, that's not a good thing for the world.
On the other hand, we both see that the people of Iran need to be brought into the world economic system. They need to feel benefits of engagement, and I think that's something that's very important. Look at the anxieties people have now about what's happening in the Middle East. For the UK and Russia to work together on that can be very valuable. That's the first thing I would mention.
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I would then say that if you look at the top crisis in the world today, it is the DPRK. It is the threat that Kim Jong-un could acquire an intercontinental ballistic missile capable of hitting not just New York, not just London, but Moscow as well. That's possible, and we think that it could be 6-18 months away. That's a very real problem. Neither of us, neither Moscow nor London; neither the UK, the British people nor the Russian people want to run that risk. How can we work together to prevent that from happening? What can we do together? I do think there are opportunities.
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The third thing I would mention — and there are plenty of others — but the third thing I would mention is Syria. I think we have to be realistic. The world has changed a lot since both our countries formulated their policies about how to deal with the crisis in Syria, and it's a tragedy what's happening there. There are still large numbers of innocent people being killed; Assad is still responsible for the bulk of the killing.
But we need to find a way forward, and we understand Russia's investment and engagement in Syria, and we respect Russia's desire to vindicate Russia's own national interest in Syria. We understand that. But we think that there's got to be a way forward that helps the people of Syria, and that allows for us to get a durable political solution. I would love to hear from Sergei how does he see things, working forward; how does he see the end game? Because I think there are some pretty big questions that still need to be answered.
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But where it is possible for the UK and Russia to work together on that, we will really try to do so. Those are some of the big foreign policy areas — in spite of the differences.
Q: You mentioned Iran and North Korea, and you probably heard that President Putin during his last big press conference mentioned that it's strange of an approach to put Russia in the same role with Iran and North Korea and at the same time to call for cooperation on Iran and North Korea. What do you think about that? Do you see any contradiction? Do you agree with him that it's a bizarre approach, or what is your reaction?
Boris Johnson: I think we don't put Russia in the same category as Iran or North Korea. Of course we don't, and there's a very simple reason for that, which is that Russia is and has been since, I believe, 1949 a nuclear power — and a legitimate nuclear power. Russia is and has been since the beginning of the UN a member of the P5 — as we are. So we don't see any such equivalence. We believe that Russia is a power worthy of respect, with whom we have serious disagreements, but with whom we must engage.
We must engage for foreign policy reasons, but also for bilateral reasons. UK-Russia trade is not trivial, it is substantial. That's a good thing. When I was Mayor of London we had plenty of events that celebrated the contributions of Russians to our lives and to our capital — and very proud of them we are, and very proud of the 150,000 Russians who live in this country.
Where it is possible to do things together, to promote cultural exchanges, to promote scientific collaboration, let's do that. I'm very pleased that there's been a Shakespeare train running through Moscow.
Q: So do you plan to discuss those things as well during your visit?
Boris Johnson: Yes, I do. Because I think human beings are complex creatures. Catullus had a very complicated relationship with Lesbia. People can have different feelings at the same time about people even with whom they have very close relations. We have great difficulties with Russia, but it is also possible to engage. And that's what we want to do, that's the mission. It's a twofold mission — a threefold mission!
- Difficult bilateral issues. Got to address them, can't ignore them.
- Serious foreign policy issues to discuss together.
- Areas of bilateral engagement, including commerce that we want to discuss together.
Q: What about security cooperation? Yesterday, as you know, President Putin thanked President Trump and the CIA for help in preventing a terrorist attack in St Petersburg. It seems that cooperation between the security services of different countries can really work, but at the moment there's basically no cooperation between the UK's secret services and the Russian secret services. Both are very experienced in terms of fighting against terrorism.
Boris Johnson: You're so right! And if you think about our history together, virtually every major conflict in the last century and a half, you found Britain and Russia on the same side. We defeated Nazism together and we can cooperate on counterterrorism and the war against people who mean to do a great deal of harm to both our societies.
One of the things where we want to help Russia, one of the things we're already talking to our Russian counterparts about is the World Cup. We congratulate Russia on securing the tournament. I was there in Zurich when you got it. I won't comment on the procedures. But I congratulate Russia on securing the World Cup and if there is any way we can help with the security of the World Cup, let's do that. I think that our people are already talking to the Russian authorities, and our police are already working together in the run-up to the World Cup.
If there are things that we can do together, then let's do them!
Q: A quick follow up question. Do you plan to raise the particular question of cooperation between security services, because this one is really important in a broader sense.
Boris Johnson: I believe that it has been, and I'll be honest with you, I happen to know because of the job that I do that we do talk, that we do cooperate, where it is possible. We want to engage and to collaborate where it is possible. And we have much more in common than divides us. Much more in common than divides us.
I'm the only British Foreign Secretary in recent memory to have had Russian ancestry, as far as I know.
Q: Well a Russian name, anyway.
Boris Jonson: Exactly!
Q: One last thing is Brexit and, unfortunately, the most popular topic, the most popular topic now is the alleged Russian interference in Brexit. Do you plan to discuss it there?
Boris Johnson: I wasn't going to mention it much because we don't really have any evidence of a successful Russian interference in our British democratic procedures. I think we've seen various bits and pieces that may have been tried here and there, but I don't think we've seen a successful interference — certainly not in the Brexit referendum, or I think in the elections.
But it is true that there are other countries who have experienced [Russian] interference. To the best of my knowledge, I think it is pretty widely accepted that the leaking of the Democratic National Committee e-mails was the handiwork of Russian actors of one kind or another. I will really be repeating what our Prime Minister said the other day in Mansion House that we are aware of this and we don't think it's sensible. I will not hide that message, but that's point one, I want to talk about point two and point three of the trip as well. As I said, there's more than unites us than divides us.
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Q: Do you think that Brexit will help?
Boris Johnson: Brexit is going to be great under any circumstances. But, I think, the deep truth is that Brexit is probably going to be irrelevant to our relationship, to the UK-Russia relationship. I think that there are other things that we need to address.
