US Ukraine coverage: an Orwellian theater of hate – Prof Kevin Barret
Dr. Barret says that now, for the first time in his lifetime, we are seeing that applied to a non-Muslim country. He calls the demonization of Muslims: Orwellian theater of hate style of propaganda which has now gone completely over-the-top, is hateful, is totally unconcerned with facts and has been turned against Russia.
Hello, this is John Robles. You are listening to an interview with Dr Kevin Barrett, he is a Doctor and a Professor in Arabic and Islamic Studies, and the co-founder of the Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for Truth. He is also the owner and manager of truthjihad.com. This is part 1 of a longer interview, you can find the rest of this interview on our website at
Robles: Hello Sir, how are you this evening?
Barrett: Doing very well, thank you.
Robles: It is a pleasure to be speaking with you again. I would like to get your opinion on what is going on in Ukraine. In particular this a scenario we've seen over and over and over and over again, except a little change here - this is not as in recent past history an Islamic or Muslim country. But can you tell us the similarities and the correlations you see between what is going on in Ukraine and what happened in Libya and Syria, and Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia etc?
Barrett Well Sir, these regime change efforts, the destabilization campaigns that have been going on, all over the world really since World War II, the US has been running around the world with its CIA, overthrowing countries, intervening almost always, I can actually I think I could say pretty much always on the side of the worst forces in whichever country it is propping up goons, fascists, thugs, mass murderers.
Chomsky and Vltchek in their latest book on western terrorism, and up about 55 million people murdered by these US CIA in military interventions around the world since World War II. So, that is an old story. Since 9/11 we've seen a real acceleration of attacks on mostly the Muslim world and we've seen also an acceleration of the propaganda war.
Americans and westerners have been brutally propagandized since 9/11 in a truly Orwellian fashion that has no respect whatsoever for their intelligence. It is very shocking. Even, the US has never been all that sophisticated or even all that free in terms of its official discourse what you hear in the media, but it wasn't this bad before 9/11, but with 9/11 in comes Bush with his 'you are either with us or against us', and they just dumbed people down. Susan Sontag talked about the infentilation of the American people.
They hit us with this extreme Orwellian propaganda, that pays no attention to the reality of anything, and now for the first time in my lifetime, we are seeing that applied to a non-Muslim country. We have been demonizing Muslims with this Orwellian theatre of hate style of propaganda since 9/11, but now they are using this over-the-top, just totally mendacious and hateful and totally unconcerned with facts kind of propaganda, turning it against Russia.
And in a way that is scary, because none of the Muslim countries they've gone after have nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them, none of the Muslim countries they've gone after really can fight back. And Russia does have the means to defend itself. So, the whole situation is just completely disgusting, and I am really ashamed to be a citizen of the US right now.
Robles: I am sure there is many people who would not support what is going on if were allowed to know what is going on.
Barrett: No, they just support it anyway. This propaganda is so extreme, it is just not working. They couldn't get their war on Syria with their false flag gas attack last August, and they just couldn't mobilize people at all. They show horrible pictures and nobody really believes it anymore, and I think the same things happening with Ukraine.
I don't see any mobilization of American public opinion that wants war in Ukraine; that even wants to be involved in Ukraine. The American people thinks it's to stay home and mind our own business and rebuild our infrastructure and let the world take care of itself. And I don't see them succeeding in changing that. So, I think it is all a big sort of puppet theatre that's been put on by these lunatics.
If you believe media, then you might think that Americans actually buy all this interventionism. But I don't think they do. They are going to have hard time keeping Rand Paul down in the next presidential elections, mainly because the people tend to agree with that sort of perceived non-interventionism of Ron and Rand Paul. So I don't really know if American people are eager for continued intervention in Ukraine.
Robles: I see, I see. The way Obama gets up there it seems like everybody is behind him, although he gave a press-conference with the little Neo-Nazi guy, Yatsenyuk, and Obama looked really nervous. He looked like he was out of his element, a little bit.
Barrett: Well things might be spinning a little bit out of their control in Ukraine right now. I just did a radio interview with a professor named Kevin McDonalds, who specializes in politically incorrect looks at ethnic conflicts, and he pointed out that we have a real strange marriage of convenience in Ukraine that was set up by this US-led destabilization of the Ukrainian government, they used Jewish Zionist billionaire oligarchs to finance mobs of Nazis.
We have the Zionist Jews and the Nazis kind of working together to overthrow a constitutionally elected government and it seems that the people trying to do this, at least the Europeans are hoping that Ukraine will become a European style multi-ethnic society that will just integrate into Europe. But doing that by having the Nazis and the Zionist extremist oligarchs working together to overthrow democratic constitutional government seems perverse and it seems that these fascist Nazi style elements in western Ukraine maybe getting out of control, and Obama and his people maybe starting to get nervous about that.
Robles: Well they are. They had their little triumvirate, except that one of them was one of these Nazi leaders, Klitschko, who I would say is a nothing, and then they had Yatsenyuk, who the Nazis and in their internal propaganda, they say he will never be president because he's a … they use a derogatory word for Jews in their internal Udar party propaganda.
So, sure, Nuland didn't want Klitschko at the top. That was revealed in that telephone conversation when they were deciding on the makeup of the future Ukrainian government. But they wanted Yatsenyuk, but the people of Ukraine don't want the Right Sector, literally neo-Nazi extremists, the people don't want Yatsenyuk, they don't want Klitschko, and they don't want Tyahnybok, he is a Nazi too. These people would never win in any kind of election.
Like you said, they support the worst forces, and who else is going to overthrow their governments militarily, usually? Who is going to go to war with their own civilian population, but probably the worst elements in any society? So, I would say out of control is probably a very good description.
Barrett: I see so many echoes of these same methods in these earlier coups, here in the US people on the left are aware of overthrow of Mosaddegh in Iran in 1953, the overthrow of Allende in Chile in 1973, and there have been a whole lot of other similar coups all over the world. And the playbook they use is pretty much the same each time.
I went back to that 1953 coup which was sort of a historic turning point in a lot of ways, I just was reading this great new book called "Coup" by Ervand Abrahamian, that really gets I think a much more accurate set of facts out about that 1953 coup, and what we see is exactly what they did in Ukraine, they work with the scum of the earth. They find fascists, venal types who are willing to take bribes in the military, and then they paid "rent-a-mobs" to create the illusion of popular support for the coup in the streets.
And in 1953 in Iran it was hilarious, the way they did this, their rent-a-mob was a bunch of gangsters. The two leading gangsters in, I think it was part of South Teheran, were named "Icy Ramadan"and "Brainless Shaban". Icy and Brainless, and these were the two guys that the CIA paid off to round up a whole bunch of mobsters and goons and thugs and march on Mosaddegh to show that the people of Iran hated Mosaddegh.
And even the western media correspondents who were … the western media was lying about this, in the same way they are lying today maybe, yeah almost as egregiously, but even the western correspondents there were almost rolling in the aisles laughing at the grotesque procession of this supposed popular support for overthrowing Mosaddegh.
And we see something like that in all these places. Some places they manage to create a more convincing illusion of popular support these days, because of the way they get their rent-a-mobs now is they're not all paid off, they manage to propagandize some folks who should know better, like in Cairo when they overthrew Mohammed Morsi, the first democratically elected president in the history of Egypt and put in this horrible thug Al-Sisi in his place, they did manage to scare up a fair percentage of the sort of anti-Islamist population of the wealthier parts of Cairo to be their rent-a-mob.
So, they have sophisticated propaganda techniques today that allow them to create a slightly more realistic illusion of popular support for these coups that they stir up.
Robles: I would argue with you about the word "sophisticated", I mean because if someone like me can figure them out, I don't think they are that sophisticated. I don't consider myself to be extremely overly sophisticated but it is so obvious.
If you looked at the crowds in Kiev, young men about maybe 20-25, maybe Aryan nation would be the best way to describe them, and they were like the skinhead training brigade or something, I don't know. They showed some protests in Crimea and women were coming out, the veterans were coming out, old people, children, families, some Muslim-looking people, and all kinds of people were coming out, right. As far as the rent-a-mob goes, it was completely just one face in Kiev.
Barrett: Yes, it was interesting that they were leaning so heavily on the skinhead element to create their illusion of popular support. I guess that would be the Ukrainian version of a Brainless Shaban and Icy Ramadan, the local thug element.
Robles: Well they've been training for about 10 years. This guy Yarosh, he was fighting with Chechen terrorists, and he actually called for terrorist attacks in Ukraine. Have you heard about that?
Robles: Now he doesn't seem to know that Dokka Umarov was, as they say here, liquidated. He published a plea for Dokka Umarov to launch terrorist attacks in Ukraine against Russia. He was saying it was a good time to attack.
Barrett: Now this was all kind of puzzling to me because I don't really see the strategic necessity from this US empire point of view.
Robles: If I could. What I see there about a strategic necessity, it is NATO. Now I don't know if it is NATO controlling the US anymore, or the US controlling NATO, of course it has always been the US controlling NATO and the Pentagon controlling NATO, but NATO wants a base in Crimea. They want to get rid of Russian influence in Crimea. They have continued even since the end of the Soviet Union to fight this great secret war, which is not so secret, against the Soviet Union. They haven't stopped.
Barrett: Right. Yes, I guess that must be it. And they are probably sort of trying to give Putin some payback for his very successful diplomatic maneuvers in Syria, and one way that would be to try to go after the fleet that can support the Syrian government. Still it is a very dangerous and I think short-sighted game to play.
I think the neo-cons could be playing an outsized role in this, and part of what drives the neo-cons is I think a love of mischief, for the sake of mischief, and also they love creating enemies and their philosophy is that politics is based on enmity. So, if you don't have good enough enemy, you'd better create one. And maybe they decided that the Muslim world isn't a big enough enemy right now, so they need to have Russia as an enemy du jour as well.
And they thrive on this, and of course they get money for it, it is a business for so many people. Victoria Nuland and these people are drawing nice salaries, and living in posh parts of DC, and hobnobbing with the elite, and jet setting around, and trying to create these new puppet governments, and things like that. I guess that is just what they do. They don't want to get a real job.
Robles: You know about Nuland, right? I mean her husband is a Bilderberg.
Barrett: Her husband is that arch neo-con. What's her husband's name?
Robles: Robert Kagan.
Barrett: That is right. Yes. PNACer.
Robles: So, to the neo-conservatives, and we have to bring up I think, since you brought up that word in this group of people, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and Wolfowitz told Wesley Clark that they were in the business of destroying nations. Do you remember that?
Barrett: Yes, that was a post 9/11. They, apparently, immediately after 9/11 Wesley Clark was told that they were going to get ready for Iraq, and then a little later he was told 'Oh it's even worse that', they are going to overthrow 7 countries in 5 years.
Robles: In 5 years, right. They said that before the next world power rises up to challenge us.
Barrett: Right, and it's interesting that the most likely prospect for the next big world power is China, and though there is some strategic encirclement of China. It seems that they are facing towards the Islamic world and they are facing towards Russia, demonizing these other countries even though the likely challenger is China.
You were listening to an interview with Dr Kevin Barrett. That was part 1 of a longer interview. Thank you very much for listening and I wish you the best wherever you may be.