'No Clear Policy' on How to Deal With Daesh Recruits Returning Home - Professor

© REUTERS / Dado Ruvic/IllustrationIslamic State flag is seen in front of a Belgian flag in this illustration taken March 22, 2016
Islamic State flag is seen in front of a Belgian flag in this illustration taken March 22, 2016 - Sputnik International
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Belgium has reportedly the highest per capita number of so-called foreign fighters, with 100 radicalized citizens returning from Daesh war zones. Sputnik discussed the issue with Jocelyne Cesari, Professor of Religion and Politics at the University of Birmingham, Senior Research Fellow at the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace and World Affairs.

Sputnik: So can you tell us who are those fighters returning to Europe?

Jocelyne Cesari: So we are here facing an issue that is all over Europe, when you have a country with a significant Muslim population there is concern for security. So who are these people? You cannot put them in one category, you have the one that wanted to defeat ISIS [Daesh terrorist group, banned in Russia] and are rejecting the caliphate or so-called “caliphate project” and you have others who have been caught in combat and are returning because they've been defeated, so these are the very different people and the issue we are facing here is that no state in Europe has a clear policy on how to deal with them.

I think it's a concern and I am a little worried because it looks like each state and country is taking its own stand or trying to find a way to deal with these returnees while knowing that they were all together and sharing a so-called political project overseas, I think it should be a European take on this issue and I'm a little worried about that.

READ MORE: Domestic Abuse: Belgium Faces the Return of Former Daesh Veterans

Sputnik: So I can imagine that some of these fighters and returnees are able to return without anybody even knowing that they were fighting with ISIS, but in the cases where authorities are aware that they were fighting with ISIS, what is the stance of the European countries? Is this a crime, does this mean that you will have problems coming back, can you lose your citizenship, can you be subjected to detention when you try to return to Europe when you're actually known to be a fighter for ISIS?

Jocelyne Cesari: That's the issue, there's no clear vision or policy on how to deal with them. What we know is that most of them end up in jail, so they're treated like criminals, especially if they've been caught fighting. Others have taken a stance of some kind of repentance or willingness to testify, but again in the UK which has been the country trying the most to create a policy there is an initiative called “Terrorism Prevention and Instigation Measure” where they try to address, case by case, and to find ways to prevent further radical action on UK soil or even going back to another combat zone, but we don’t have any kind of evaluation because it's too early or even sufficient accumulation of cases to make a point at this stage.

Sputnik: Is there the possibility of people getting radicalized, is there a risk that people get radicalized when they're in prison for some other crime and then they meet these people in jail and get radicalized?

Jocelyne Cesari: No, I don't think so, I don't think that the danger comes from the ones in prison. I know there's been recurring concerns of radicalization in prisons but it has been debunked by lots of surveys. What is worrisome is their activities on social media, the fact that they're very vocal, in this sense you've mentioned freedom of speech can be a double edged sword in the sense that we're in liberal democracies, of course they have the right to speak, although we all anti-terrorism measures there's now a blurry line between saying illiberal things and calling for fighting, they are measures that can be used but if so they're very active on social media and that's the way young people get the message, it's not so much the prison and the face to face, it is very much the message that is out there and even if ISIS has been defeated in a particular territory, its vision or its appeal has never been limited to territory,  then there is lots of options and possibilities to try to rebuild the caliphate or even to turn the weapons against the West because they are the enemy.

Sputnik: What's currently being done to prevent recruitment and the spread of terrorist propaganda in Europe?

READ MORE: Despite Imminent Daesh Defeat Fewer Jihadists Returning 'Home' to Europe

Jocelyne Cesari: So there are a few things, as I said some of them go to jail, there's lots of attempts to involve law enforcement to monitor those who don't go to jail, the question is not so much that these people are one on one, it's the message that is conveyed in ways that has not been defeated honestly, that's what I've been saying for a long time, ISIS is now not only a so-called state, it is a message that can mobilize anywhere, anytime with very little logistics, so what do you do? Do you put a policeman or policewoman behind every potential young man or woman that will be attracted to that, do you try to create another message, but not a counter message, you know, these are very challenging questions.

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Sputnik: What should European governments do to prevent these fighters from committing crime and posing a risk and spreading this message?

Jocelyne Cesari: One way to deal with that is to try to build or rebuild some kind of social relations. Of course, if the person was a fighter and still wants to fight he has to go to jail, but you have all this great number of people who have rejected the caliphate, who don't want to be part of it anymore, so how do you reinsert them into communities and the local level is key here. I don't think it should be dealt only within Muslim communities, it needs to be locally fought.

The views and opinions expressed by Jocelyne Cesari are those of the speaker and do not necessarily reflect those of Sputnik.

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