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Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban (C) leaves a guest house Zielona Owieczka after a meetig with Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of Poland's ruling Law and Justice party (PiS) in Nidzica, Poland January 6, 2016

The Polish-Hungarian Conspiracy Surrounding an 'Alternative Germany'

© REUTERS/ Marek Podmokly
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Last week, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban met for six hours with Polish political patriarch Jaroslaw Kaczynski at Niedzica Castle in southern Poland. With virtually no details available on the meeting, journalists were quick to speculate, some suggesting that the two political outsiders were hatching a conspiracy.

In his analysis, recently published on the website of independent Russian news agency REGNUM, journalist Stanislav Stremidlovsky offered one of the more interesting takes on what transpired in the Polish castle.

"On January 6, in the southern Polish town of Niedzica, two men – Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban and Polish Law and Justice (PiS) party leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski – now considered to be the most powerful man in Poland, held a meeting," the journalist writes.

"Orban had arrived for a private visit. His conversation with Kaczynski lasted nearly 6 hours, and such a length, apparently, was not planned for in advance. Polish Radio's foreign service quoted PiS politician Joachim Brudzinski, who wrote [in his Twitter account] that 'in the morning, none of us expected that this meeting would be finishing just now.'"

Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of Poland's ruling Law and Justice party (PiS) leaves a guest house Zielona Owieczka after a meeting with Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban in Niedzica, Poland January 6, 2016
© REUTERS/ Marek Podmokly
Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of Poland's ruling Law and Justice party (PiS) leaves a guest house Zielona Owieczka after a meeting with Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban in Niedzica, Poland January 6, 2016

And "since the discussion between the two influential European politicians had no official status, their press services declined to comment or disclose any information on what was discussed. This air of mystery excited the Polish, Hungarian and European press alike. The air smelled of conspiracy in the spirit of the good old Europe of the start of the 20th century – what more could the media ask for amid the New Year holidays?"

Orban himself, Stremidlovsky noted, "only added to the mystery," saying of his meeting with Kaczynski that "if one looks at our biographies, it's clear that the head of Poland's ruling party and I are fighters for freedom of a certain kind. Therefore, one could say that we are old friends, and I was very happy to visit my friend."

"The Hungarian prime minister," the journalist writes, "cannot but be complemented for his sarcasm. Both he and his Polish 'old friend' are now being targeted by 'democratic forces' in their own countries and in Europe."

"Orban, of course, for longer. For several years now he has been accused of authoritarianism, the suppression of freedom in Hungary, and for his lack of a critical attitude toward Russia, the latter causing outrage in Poland at the beginning of last year."

​In February 2015, "on the eve of his visit to Warsaw, the Hungarian Prime Minister said that when it comes to the prospects of developing relations with Russia, the EU is strongly divided. On one side were Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Austria: 'We believe that without cooperation with Russia, we cannot achieve our goals,' Orban had said. On the other side were the Baltic states, Poland, and from across the ocean, Washington, arguing that it was necessary to 'push Russia away from cooperating with the European Union.' At the same time, Orban criticized European Council chairman Donald Tusk, Angela Merkel's protégé."

Back then, Stremidlovsky noted, the PiS, "the party of Orban's 'old friend', accused the Hungarian prime minister of 'acting against the unity of Europe on the issue of relations with Russia'."

"At that time, the main front for Warsaw was in the East. Today, the new Polish authorities are faced with the fact that they will have to defend themselves mainly in the West. Berlin means business and is not going to limit its attacks on the PiS to Brussels. As the German media has reported, the ruling coalition in the Bundestag is considering the imposition of sanctions against the 'Conservative government' in Poland, which 'continues to violate the principles of the rule of law, the separation of powers and the freedom of the press.'"

Speaking to Der Spiegel, Merkel 'right hand' CDU politician Volker Kauder suggested that Brussels must "find the courage to apply sanctions" against a defiant Poland if "European values are violated."

"It is this type of thing," Stremidlovsky writes, "that Orban unequivocally steps out against. The Hungarian prime minister has publically said that Budapest will never allow the EU to punish Poland. And this is not just a gesture, but a manifestation of the political course taken by Budapest."

"As Austrian newspaper Der Standard has noted, Orban is working at the head of an 'axis of nations in the EU'. According to the newspaper, the governments of Hungary, Poland and the UK are trying to slow down European integration. Budapest, Warsaw, and the other two countries in the Visegrad Group – the Czech Republic and Slovakia, are turning into a powerful union, whose activities are aimed at strengthening 'national politics' in the EU. And their main opponent sits in Berlin."

Now, Stremidlovsky suggests, "it's time to admit the obvious: we need a different Germany and different Germans. Chancellor Merkel, unfortunately, has demonstrated that Berlin finds it difficult to follow a moderate middle course. Germany slides either toward Nazism or toward a vulgar understanding of freedom and tolerance. Europe and the world need a more sensible Germany, one which is accommodating and tolerant, but at the same time able to firmly defend European values and the interests of the EU's citizens."

That 'different Germany', the journalist suggests, is Austria. "History has shown that the Austrian, and later, the Austro-Hungarian Empires, distinguished themselves with their ability to carry out reforms, with virtuous, but simultaneously firm national and religious policies, and with an understanding about who it was they were dealing with in the face of the Ottoman Empire."

"Today too," Stremidlovsky writes, "Austria demonstrates an enviably sanity which leads Central and European countries to turn in its direction. It's worth recalling that last year, in the Bohemian castle of Slavkov, the prime ministers of Austria, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia met and signed a declaration announcing the establishment of the Slavkov Triangle. Its objectives include the promotion of cooperation on transport infrastructure, energy security, youth employment, cross-border relations, the social dimensions of EU integration, and countries neighboring the EU."

"As Polish Institute of International Affairs expert Dariusz Kawan noted at the time, Austria is pursuing a consistent policy of 'building bridges' between the EU and Russia. Vienna actively participated in work on the [now abandoned] South Stream pipeline, which would have allowed it to increase the importance of the Baumgarten gas hub, and considered sanctions against Russia to be unnecessary."

Ultimately Stremidlovsky notes, "so long as Poland, under the previous government, adhered to a rigid anti-Russian rhetoric, this created problems within the Visegrad Group and for Poland's relations with those European countries which did not consider it necessary to provoke a confrontation with Moscow."

"Coincidence or not, but there is one more interesting nuance here: when taking into account the Europe's dominant national religions, the continent's Catholic countries tend to be more friendly toward Russia than Protestant ones. Up to now, Poland has remained the exception, an anomaly, to this rule. Now, Warsaw has a chance to take its worthy place in the 'axis of nations in the EU'. It will find Hungary and Orban's help useful. Moreover, the development of relations with Vienna via Budapest will show that the Poles are able to reach an agreement and get along with Germans, no matter what Berlin may think."

Tags:
informal meeting, media speculation, meeting, analysis, Law and Justice Party (Poland), Viktor Orban, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, Hungary, Germany, Poland, Russia, Brussels
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  • Ivan Zadorozhny
    Russia should support Hungary and Poland insofar it contributes to keeping the EU divided.
  • wbeebyin reply toteddy j(Show commentHide comment)
    teddy j, I agree .
  • Pelagius
    Their biographies? Is Orban serious, does he really advise people to check on him working for a SOROS FOUNDATION and attending a "former" JESUIT university?

    These people really make no bones about being part of the NWO, although they pretend to oppose US, German or British policy ... Europe is a joke, there is virtually no real opposition left since decades...
  • Serve it hot ...
    Impressive article, it ties important facts together but leaves a lot of assumptions to be made and questions unanswered for outsiders!

    Especially surprising is the Austrians position given the fact that the PM and his "Django" are firmly controlling the press and this press is singing a completely different song in VIE!

    Thus, I would assume that either VIE is playing very dirty or playing it differently (as stated in the article). With regard to WAW, what options do they have, if BER (WAS) puts pressure on them, other than to join the Visegrad POV?!

    I am also not certain if BER, with Merkel on top, wants to blow up the EU or strengthen a joint "political EU" ... her "refugees welcome" politics, with Tweets originated in the US, is not only endangering Merkel but the entire EU (which is welcomed by its subjects likely).
    Was/is this intention? Like MOW, BER never takes a leak without a proper plan (though the environment currently is rather dynamic).

    With regard to economics, the most important economic effect of the mass immigration in GER is that salaries will stay low for long time IF only a fraction of the predominantly young males can be integrated into the working world.

    And such an integration into GERs working world would without doubt further lead to prolonged problems for the EU South (including France) to structure its production sector competitively, i.e. the Sough might become even more dependent on BER, the EU will economically imbalance further at an increasing speed. Note, the South is asking GER to increase the cost of labour so that the South can somehow become competitive and solve its disastrous financial situation".

    If Merkel's political half-life period is declining (as stated by the GER press, which is unique in GER given her pre Russia/Refugee status), who and what politics are to follow?!
  • Serve it hot ...
    Impressive article, it ties important facts together but leaves a lot of assumptions to be made and questions unanswered for outsiders!

    Especially surprising is the Austrians position given the fact that the PM and his "Django" are firmly controlling the press and this press is singing a completely different song in VIE!

    Thus, I would assume that either VIE is playing very dirty or playing it differently (as stated in the article). With regard to WAW, what options do they have, if BER (WAS) puts pressure on them, other than to join the Visegrad POV?!

    I am also not certain if BER, with Merkel on top, wants to blow up the EU or strengthen a joint "political EU" ... her "refugees welcome" politics, with Tweets originated in the US, is not only endangering Merkel but the entire EU (which is welcomed by its subjects likely).
    Was/is this intention? Like MOW, BER never takes a leak without a proper plan (though the environment currently is rather dynamic).

    With regard to economics, the most important economic effect of the mass immigration in GER is that salaries will stay low for long time IF only a fraction of the predominantly young males can be integrated into the working world.

    And such an integration into GERs working world would without doubt further lead to prolonged problems for the EU South (including France) to structure its production sector competitively, i.e. the Sough might become even more dependent on BER, the EU will economically imbalance further at an increasing speed. Note, the South is asking GER to increase the cost of labour so that the South can somehow become competitive and solve its disastrous financial situation".

    If Merkel's political half-life period is declining (as stated by the GER press, which is unique in GER given her pre Russia/Refugee status), who and what politics are to follow?!
  • dewatergeus
    IMO, I think this is not a bad thing these countries wanting to do.
    From history lessons I can remember that before WWII there was a powerful Middle Europe. Not only commercially but also of a high culture- and cultivated standard.
    I also can remember a documentary in which a Hungarian writer or historian (have to look it up if necessary) in 1988 was already talking about rebuilding this former strong Middle European Bond with Poland, Austria, Czech Rep., Slovakia and Hungary.
    So there you see, may be this is the right moment for them to start the rebuilding of the in the past, worthy bond of Middle Europe nations. And was by the way at that time without any interference of UK or Britain.
    We are speaking about the SLAVIC part of Europe which is more connected to the Russian Slavic culture then the Germanic culture.
  • Mother Gorilla
    Great that the Visegrad group still lives! A change from boring EU conformity! Anyway, it will make the East European countries more internationalist in the long run as well!
  • dewatergeusin reply toMother Gorilla(Show commentHide comment)
    Miss Germany, well said. I fully agree with this vision.
  • dewatergeusin reply toMother Gorilla(Show commentHide comment)
    Miss Germany, well said. I fully agree with this vision.
  • dewatergeus
    By putting sanctions to Poland the "Goup of 5-EU-dictators" will only speed up the process these countries have been informally been talking about.
    Not so good plan, EU.
    The time EU could dictate some countries with a wink to stay in the row are over.
  • michaelin reply todewatergeus(Show commentHide comment)
    dewatergeus,
    The time EU could dictate some countries with a wink to stay in the row are over.
    It is starting to feel that way. As others have written, it will be an interesting year.
  • michaelin reply toMother Gorilla(Show commentHide comment)
    Miss Germany, yes, I would also hope so. I will look forward to reading more of this group's activities to see how they consolidate.
  • michaelin reply toteddy j(Show commentHide comment)
    teddy j, agree with the emphasis of the report's speculatory nature.
  • in reply toServe it hot ... (Show commentHide comment)
    Serve it hot ..., I reckon there is a plan to split EU in three zones. Otherwise it will never work.
  • Blackie in reply toMother Gorilla(Show commentHide comment)
    Miss Germany,
    Hi Miss,
    It will only get worse, and Mekel the Terrible will just wait until the next election.
  • Blackie
    "Where a Women Rules streams run up hill", old African saying.
    This is the order by chaos plan for Europe. It will shrivel and die like the grass in the Sahara.
  • Mother Gorillain reply toBlackie (Show commentHide comment)
    Africa, brilliant, you even surpassed your usual genius on this one!
  • cmat.wolfgang
    Chancellor Merkle will be in the history books for destroying not only Germany but also the EU. Now, I doubt that she will ever get the Nobel Peace prize. She is slowly running out of People supporting her politics, and not only in Germany.
  • Eva Brown
    Germany will do the same they have done in Ucraine. Next riot in Warsov there will be deads and they will say was the police when in fact will be some nazis disguised in polish. Was Germany that did murder Jaroslaw 's brother ... think !!! Who profit more and who did ??? Germany with new politicians in Warsov follo wing like dogs Berlin orders was super . Now that Poland tries to recover their identity the polish government is a bad one because is no subservient to Berlin and to all but all corrupted politicians in Bruxels We should remember that his brother abd mir 100 polish officials were murdered by germany their secret police did put several small bombs inbtheir airplane to explode in russia territory were they intend to go to develop an approach with Russia.
  • Monika
    Kaczynski's been not quite relevant.

    Jaroslaw Kaczynski, leader of PIS party, is considered to be the most powerful man in Poland. I guess his January 6 meeting with Hungarian prime-minister Orban was really vital for those top pols, both "fighters for freedom of a certain kind", as Orban himself put it.
    Far as I got it, Germany is set to apply sanctions against maverick "conservative government of Poland" somewhat prone to stick to EU traditional values. Actually those are sanctions against Jaroslaw Kaczynski, whose party in fact has the majority both in the parliament and government. And Orban has made it clear that Hungary won't allow the EU to punish Poland. I only wonder, if Orban aware of this diagnosis FXS Jaroslaw has. It means some mental disorders. I mean PIS leader may turn out to be not quite relevant just and those oddities in his political stance may be simply the result of serious mental disorders getting worse with time.
    medium.com/@SabineBoeddinghaus/poles-are-hiding-the-truth-about-mental-health-of-jaroslaw-kaczynski-
    i.imgur.com/gby83li.jpg
    i.imgur.com/2Fdn3Xb.jpg
    i.imgur.com/lHGuEm5.jpg
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